Today in Bitcoin (2017-08-22) – The New York Agreement is not a Suicide Pact

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37 Comments on Today in Bitcoin (2017-08-22) – The New York Agreement is not a Suicide Pact

  1. “Miners aren’t rational” – Tone Vays

    The most rational thing is to mine the most profitable chain. period.

  2. There comes the dictatorship…. Someone obviously doesn’t understand what an open source project is. Idi Amin in the house.

  3. “Johnny Dilley says miners are stupid and should have no say.” And you wonder why there is a 95% consensus against Blockstream. Just incredible. Good luck with your science experiment.

    • Actually he said dumb, which is a different word than stupid:

      Dumb: temporarily unable or unwilling to speak.
      Stupid: having or showing a great lack of intelligence or common sense.

  4. Look: I would hold BTC and Segwit2x tokens, necause That fork represents a real significant difference.

    Bitcoin cash did not represent a significant Fork, because Bitcoin can simply update to the 8 megabyte limit, in short order if Bitcoin cash becomes to threatening.

  5. What we have here is a guy in a suit telling us that BTC with segregated witness is the real Bitcoin, but not telling us why. I hope people won’t take on, that is a simple statement of fact. Or perhaps I missed those reasons being stated? If so, feel free point them out.

    I do not pretend to know the answer to that big question, but until segwit supporters start coming up with some actual arguments why segwit is real Bitcoin and WHY BCC/BCH is a scam or impostor, I’ll keep an open mind and reject all brainwashing attempts. Yes, brainwashing attempts. This video seems to to imply that the answer is ovbvious, but it isn’t. So stop trying to be “authorities” like the old news channels (& BTW, that vocal style is absolutely orrible anyway), or at least lay out the arguments *while* you posture.

    Here are a few specifics from an observer ouside the fray:

    1./ Lightning isn’t ready for everyday use yet. We, as users, had a lot of hassle with rising fees and fee-paid transactions stuck for day after day already in June, so we’ve had a foretaste. Are we going to head back there in a few months with blocks fixed forever at 1MB?

    2./ NYA/2x was not supposed to be “perfection” or “truth”. It was supposed to be something that all bitcoiners could agree on and get behind, if even some part of it did not align exactly with our personal vision of what Bitcoin could or ‘should’ be. It gave something to everyone. So agreeing to a 2-part recipe for compromise, then bailing out of the bit you didn’t like when you’ve got the bit you wanted, is going to make people wonder about your motives and whether you can be trusted next time. Especially when the Why goes consistently unanswered.

    3./ Segwit is not bitcoin as we know it. It is part of a drive to build a whole new layer on top of ‘traditional’ bitcoin, whereby us everyday joes will not be trading ‘real’ bitcoin, we will be trading bitcoin IOUs based on a web of trust. This is something quite new, and a very major change. It is not something that can be accepted without thought and understanding. From the outside that web of trust looks a whole lot more nebuous and a whole lot less reliable than proof of work and control of our private keys on a network that was working fine until scaling got stalled. Before everyone on the core side jumps down my throat, that does not mean I reject segwit + overlays, it means I don’t know enough to evaluate it and I would like more information. Attempts to be ‘authoritative’ rather than explaining, are nothing but counter productive. The more you attack or sneer or even just ignore the question, the more I (and many others) want to know the real answers.

    4./ Tone Vays seems to want to attack miners for fulfilling their function in going after profit. Good luck with that. It is typical of the tone of several (not all) on the Core side; in short – “we know best, you shut up”. That attitude only ensures that any available alternatives will garner continued interest.

    • [edit2- Original commenter deleted his post, which was a personal attack].
      It’s precisely responses like this that make me wonder if Roger might have a point after all. And caused me to visit his youtube channel for the first time. I’m glad I did. Thanks.

    • “….Attack miners for fulfilling their function in going after profit.”

      What are you, a cyborg? What does that even mean? Not everyone is a mindless wight raised from the dead by the Night King to follow orders without question.

      Not everyone does things simply for money. People understand the stakes and it’s not a time to be greedy.

    • Please focus on the question. Miners precisely do NOT follow orders, and that’s a really good thing.

      What it means is this: Bitcoin works via economic game theory, not via altruism. Miners seek to get a return on investment in a competitive activity. That competition (to find the next block) is one of the factors in this ever-so-carefully put together wonder that is Bitcoin, that got it from zero to the very hopeful champion it is today. It did not happen by accident, or only by good intentions, it happened because of a brilliant bit of design work and then people putting in their time or money or effort to help make it happen, based on the promise of the original idea of a (much) better money.

      Of course, if miners or anyone else decides to go beyond self interest and do things for the greater good, that is great and I’ll be the first to congratulate and maybe even help those who do that (this is not just nice words, for instance, I already donated some of my Bitcoins to good causes such as fundraisers for early promoters, Multibit software development, and Andreas’ Dorian Nakamoto fund).

      But make no mistake: self-interest, channelled to the greater good by a superbly designed protocol, is what got Bitcoin off the ground and what keeps it going right now. If you sacrifice that, you will very probably be left with nothing but your dreams.

  6. It is Bitcoin Cash – there are no bad movies being made about Cryptocurrencies yet. You seem smarter than that.

    The reason for a 2mb block – and the reason for Bitcoin Cash and it’s 8mb block is the slow, congested, expensive, self-serving profiteering of core that needs to be done away with. Those guys are going to kill the market if they are allowed to.

    Legacy is NOT the real Bitcoin, Bitcoin Cash is because it follows Satoshi’s vision and Seg-Wit has built in hackability/steal your coins code that could easily be exploited. Do your homework. You seem smarter than this. Omar Bam is way smarter and way better at covering this than you are.

  7. You guys should read the bitwala statement again, the backed off some, but not completely. They said they still want to see segwit2x happen, but not leroy jenkins style without developer support.

    Also that there is no technical reason for 2x is very debateable, Fees are high and transactions become unreliable because of network congestion, very good reason to grant more space imho…

    • I think you’d find a majority of the community would be in support of 2mb blocks if it had developer support. However, it currently does not.

  8. Jesus! What’s with Tone Vays? Enough with this nonsense “Ohh I sold all my bcash early, and I don’t regret it!” I’d be mad as hell if I listened to this guy’s advice and weeks later saw bitcoin cash growing +80% be a man and admit it was a stupid decision u made to sell all your bitcoin cash coins Tone, you got it for free anyway, so why tha hell would u sell it early?

  9. He who gains the world and loses
    His soul is a poor man. A message for everyone especially the Miners.
    If we are to build a new world then it’s important
    To realise that Each and everyone of us is truly responsible each other. Before making a decision which coin to mind think how it will affect the whole and not
    Just your own pockets. Bitcoin is the way shower the pointer to unenslave ourselves from the criminals that have been running the show for way too long.

    • Robert Berman some people just want to be next gen criminals. We have not evolved to curb our egos and autocratic tendencies with respect to the concentration of energy and influence available in the modern age. Personally I think this process is necessary to shed that mindset, if they try it now and fail, humanity can get somewhere, whereas if they sit tight and don’t prove the security works, it might fail much more spectacularly. In a way its a mixed blessing that bitcoin attracts so many psychopaths.

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